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Thread: Historical Renault item? Help please.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Question Historical Renault item? Help please.

    Hello. My name is Maximiliano, and I am an automobilia collector. I have a rare item from Renault, but the most interesting thing about it is that it appeared on the front cover of a 1963 brochure of Renault Inc. (USA).

    I have tried with Renault (FRANCE) and with Automobile Quarterly to find information about it but nobody answered me.

    I just found your forum you on the web so I am trying with you to see if you can help me.

    Here is a link to my concern, placed on the PreWarCar.com website a few weeks ago:
    http://www.prewarcar.com/prewar-my-p...em-018942.html

    I would appreciate any information about it!!!!

    I am happy to provide any additional information about the item (size, characteristics; etc) if necessary.

    Thanks in advance!!! and Happy New Year!!!

    Max

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cookshire, Quebec, Canada
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    Default Renault item

    Perhaps you have the original that was used for the brochure. You could have answers on a french site like http://fuego.xooit.com/index.php. If you cannot write your post in French, I can do it for you. Good luck.

  3. #3
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    Dec 2012
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    5

    Default Historical Renault item? Help please.

    Hi, and thanks for the tip. If you consider that on the French site they can probably have an idea... let's go ahead!!! Sadly I do not speak French, so could help me?

    Once again thank you for any idea. On the PreWarCar.com site someone told me that the logo could be from a model 40 (large cars). But has no idea about the wooden work.

    Kind regards,

    Max

  4. #4
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    Hi Maximiliano,
    I can post on a French site.
    can you send me the pictures posted on the prewar site ? (send a private message)
    Do you have a picture of the interior pages of the brochure ?
    That piece seems unique and sculpted in wood.
    What are the dimensions ? (LxWxT)

    What do you want to know about that piece ?
    If you dont know how to send a private message on this site, I can send one to you.
    gring

  5. #5
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    Dec 2012
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    Default Historical Renault item? Help please.

    Hello Gring, and thanks for your help.
    The size of the wooden plaque is 40cm x 21cm x 6cm

    I would like to know:
    1) What was it for?
    2) Who made it?
    3) Who was the owner of it (provenance)?

    All the pictures can be found here:









    Thanks again. I truly appreciate it.

  6. #6
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    Default On the French site


  7. #7
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    Dec 2012
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    Default Historical Renault item? Help please.

    Hello Gring.
    Thanks for your help with the French site. If I understand correctly they consider this to be a publicity object. I am not so sure... but it could be.

    So the mystery continues... who and why someone place this on the front cover of the brochure? And where it came from?

    Maybe someday I find an answer from the Automobile Quarterly staff (they never answered my emails yet). They definitely must know something about it, considering that they assist Renault Inc. with the design of the booklet.

    Once again, thank you for your attention. And yes... I am from Argentina. I acquire this rare item in the US and took it with me to Buenos Aires.

    All the best,

    Max

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Having been involved in researching a lot of my family history I can understand how frustrating this kind of search can be. I think I would take it to various antique dealers and get them to try and give a general date from condition. It will be very general but you have to start somewhere. Next I think a decent university should have someone (either art department or forestry) who can identify the type of wood and maybe date each layer of paint. With general date, paint and wood type you then should know what region and time period. What is the width of the mounting unpainted line? Would it most likely have been fastened to rough cut wood or finished wood? What was available in the region of the factory and when?

    Is that the family crest? Perhaps some of the genuine family members not associated with the company can help. Try and locate a family online group (it will be hard due to the noise online caused by the car company but try ancestry.com) and research the family crest and family history. The fact that Renault had a gardeners shed indicates they were wealthy or nobility to start with. This item could predate the car company.

    It probably was mounted to a fence rail. If it turns out to date from the teens or twenties I would get as many pictures of that early garden shack and the estate home as possible.

    It looks to me to have been mounted for many many years outside (dark unpainted line across the back and multi layers of paint) and then someone put the hanger on the back (what period is the hanger?) and it was hung indoors (office, home, pub?). How many layers of paint on it? What type of paint (again university art department) ? Lead based? etc. etc.

    A note on the screws holding the diamond on: Are the slots offset slightly? Screws made in machines are even, handmade ones are not and I'm not sure about France but in the USA they would be pre 1900-1905? if irregular. If you remove the screws are the threads irregular like hand filed? definitely pre 1900.

    Contact antique dealers in the region of the factory and see who might have been carving for a living in the teens, twenties and early thirty's

    I seriously doubt it was a publicity piece. If some tattooed, ear-ringed (I know, I know I'm a bigot. I got kids like I'm describing. I'm an old man and not very PC) modern advertising executive answered your letters from the factory I would disregard their replies entirely. They have other problems to deal with and probably your requests did not make it very far up the chain of command.

    Unless that is an elaborate "fake" job, that piece is very very old and hung outdoors for most of it's life. Most likely either a: family crest, home marker for one of the family, early factory gate/fence logo, or a later upscale dealer sign. Early pictures, pictures, pictures are your friend in this case.

    If very old someone probably picked it up in France on a tourist trip or a service man picked it up as a "trophy" during/after WWII. A local maybe stole it after an allied bombing raid. Any chance to trace it backward? Who did you get it from? Was there a service man in the background stationed in France? What did he do? Renault was in dis respect at the end of the occupation and that could have caused a breech of security at the plant. Check for disconnected family events. Were their any family estate auctions? Catalogs of those auctions might mention or have a picture. Again local antique dealers may have ideas. Many estates get broken up because the old folks linger in a rest home and the younger generation doesn't go through their things till they die 20 years later and by then the history is forgotten, the kids don't care and some estate seller just gets rid of the stuff.

    According to this page the the particular badge you have was first used in 1925:
    http://www.autoviva.com/renault-info/make/1496
    So there is a date.
    And here it is on a car:
    http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-co...ing-139416.jpg

    Lastly, don't hang your hat on any one clue. Ultimately you will need to see it in a picture mounted somewhere to 99% establish provenance.

    Hope some of these ideas may be helpful. Start by dating the piece.
    Last edited by qsmx440; 05-21-2013 at 12:27 PM.

  9. #9
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    Cookshire, Quebec, Canada
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    Default

    What an interesting post !!! I hope member Guardian will read it. Your analysis is astonishing. As if I was reading a novel from Dan brown.

  10. #10
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    Dec 2012
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    Default Historical Renault item? Help please.

    Hi again. First of all... thanks qsmx440 for your advice. I will definitely be walking that path in order to find the truth behind this weird item.

    Since my first post I was able to contact Hemmings, and one editor of a Hemmings magazine decided to help me by publishing the story in Exotic & Sportscar magazine. I couldn't see it yet, but I know that it was published on the May edition.

    So... maybe I can get some answer soon. If not, I will take the advice of qsmx440.

    Thanks again folks!!! And of course... I will be getting back to you as soon as I have news about this.

    Take care,

    Max

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